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spdmrcht · Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Posts: 498

The LVRJ has the story of the Peppermill being Fined 1M, for using a
slot machine Key at other Casino's! John you may want to check this
one out?

john · Site Admin Joined: 17 Dec 2005 Posts: 1181

Here's the LVRJ article, which brings a question to mind.

The article said they have been doing this since 2011. With all the security cameras in place in casinos, how did that go unnoticed? And I thought casinos were so respectable.

spdmrcht · Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Posts: 498

I was under the impression that tampering with a gambling device
was a Felony? How come no ones going to Jail??

CaSwede · Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 866

Wow- That is pretty ballsy on the part of Ryan Tors. To open up a machine out in the open with all sorts of casino personnel around takes a lot of courage. I am sure the video surveillance did him in. How can you deny that was not you on the camera....don't wave next time.

All it takes is a cheap reset key? A person would think the machines would have better security than a key you can buy on E-Bay.

spdmrcht- He did not tamper with the machines, but was simply getting the information that is available when the machine is open.

spdmrcht · Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Posts: 498

I don't think it opens it, but just gives info on the screen, they use
one for the slot tournaments to clear and reset it for the next round.

CaSwede · Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 866

Your right. I went back and re-read the story and there was no mention of the machine being opened. I remember years ago I was playing a video poker machine and two guys came down the row and opened up each machine, pushed an internal button and all sorts of information came up on the screen. I was watching and it told how many royal flushes etc., coin in, coin out and the return percentage of that machine. It was quite interesting.

That reset key could come in handy. If you want to play a slot machine just go to each machine in the casino and play the one that gives the highest theo return.

john · Site Admin Joined: 17 Dec 2005 Posts: 1181

Here's the Reno Gazette Urinal's report on the Peppermill's indiscretion.

JD · Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 956

The BEST part of the story I've cut and pasted from the Reno Gazette Journal here because you only get so many free looks.

An important part of the story is which casinos they used this access key on.... who is MISSING?
---------------------------

The Peppermill Resort Spa Casino.
Purchase Image
The Peppermill Resort Spa Casino. / Tim Dunn/RGJ
Written by
Jason Hidalgo

Filed Under

Business
Gaming & Tourism

Peppermill Resort Spa Casino
Grand Sierra
State: Peppermill analyst accessed 11 casinos’ slots

Additional investigation by the state determined that Peppermill Resort Spa Casino corporate analyst Ryan Tors used a slot machine reset key in the Grand Sierra Resort and Casino at least 10 other Nevada casino properties as well:

Atlantis Casino Resort Spa, Reno
Eldorado Hotel Casino, Reno
Circus Circus Reno
Siena Hotel Spa Casino, Reno
Tamarack Junction Casino & Restaurant, Reno
Rail City Casino, Sparks
Baldini’s Sports Casino, Sparks
Hobey’s Casino and Restaurant, Sun Valley
Wendover Nugget Hotel and Casino, Wendover
Red Garter Hotel & Casino, Wendover

Source: Nevada State Gaming Control Board

About the Peppermill

• Originally started as a coffee shop opened by co-owners Nat Carasali and Bill Paganetti in 1971.
• Since opening, the Peppermill has undergone nine expansions.
• Underwent a major $400 million expansion in 2007. The expansion includes the 600-room, 19-story Tuscany Tower, the 62,000-square-foot Tuscany Ballroom and the 43,000-square-foot Spa & Salon Toscana.

spdmrcht · Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Posts: 498

I find it interesting that the ones that are Missing on that list!
I guess its no secret that Harrah's has the worst pay tables
in town?? And Cal Neva has the best?

remano · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 717

I don't understand why the Peppermill thought it was worth the risk for what they got in return. Consider:

1. Every casino in the industry has a pretty good estimate of what others are doing. They don't need exact pay tables from specific machines to decide how to do business.

2. What could they do with the information? Were they going to contact the Gaming Control Board to complain that "GSR advertises a 97% payback but we unlawfully spied on them to discover that it's only 93%"? I doubt that, so what else could they do with it?

3. Casinos already advertise "Loosest slots in town" or something to that effect. They can't say "We know, because we spied on our competitors." So, what's the advantage of spying? You can make the claim whether you can prove it or not, and the only way to prove it is to admit you have broken the law.

4. It doesn't matter to the typical slot player, so why should it matter to the Peppermill. Players pick a machine due to superstition, convenience, lighting, the layout of the casino, the color of the chair, the drink service or other factors not related to the pay schedule. You can't tell anything about whether a particular machine is "loose" or "tight" based on a typical playing experience. The machine's theoretical payout is based on something like 15 million pulls, which is like playing every 12 seconds, no bathroom breaks, eating or sleeping, for 6 years. During that time you could go "hot" or "cold" for days or weeks at a time and still be on track for the programmed payback. So a player can just pick a machine at random, and how does it help the Peppermill to know that (for example) GSR's machines pay back 95.6% and Eldorado's pay 96%?

I just don't get what they were thinking.

JD · Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 956

I think it's like when a politician is in a tight race and hires a "consultant" to do "opposition research".

Before you know it, you're in front of the cameras saying, " I am NOT a crook...."

Be careful what you ask for. You might get it.

And the big money they paid this guy....and the fine ... Could have comped a LOT of rooms, drinks and meals.

It's going to take a LOT of bait & switch deals & Keno players to make this (and the bad PR) back.

CaSwede · Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 866

Yes, those are all good questions on the motive of the spying episode. I guess knowledge is king and no one thought anyone would get caught.

I really doubt we will get much additional information out of the local RGJ paper. They will probably just report what has already been revealed. This paper knows what side of their toast has butter on it ($$). They don't want to piss off the Peppermill and lose advertising revenue.

I found another article that states the reset key has the ability to change the hold percentages on a machine......Now that is interesting.
http://www.nevadaappeal.com/news/10200934-113/complaint-peppermill-machines-tors?utm

Mammothgambler · Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 619

Hi everyone! I left North Carolina and moved to Colorado last month. The (non-tribal) casino corridor of the Rockies is only 30 miles away, I was just notified, so it's gonna be time for a road trip very soon!

However, still keeping up with things in Reno, I was really surprised to hear/read about this, and I agree with everyone's comments. I can't quite understand why someone would go through all this risk and not get anything tangible in return, except a bunch of madness, and it appears he definitely checked out quite a variety of properties over a long time span.

Just a hunch, but maybe he might have been better off just acting as a tourist and maybe getting all the information from the slot techs, property websites, or maybe even off of those paper handouts like the ones available at Harrah's that give out the information about the payouts of the top 50 highest paying machines each month? To the best of my knowledge, all of this is free, legal information, otherwise they wouldn't be posting and handing it out. Jeez, I've never had a slot tech NOT tell me the estimated payback percentage of a particular machine, who racked up the points in the last tournament, or when the last jackpot was hit when I've asked.

Also, for the Pep always advertising over the years that "all of the machines on their floor are 93% payback or higher and no other casino in Northern Nevada can offer this," why even bother looking at the competition? Oh wait, that information is no longer being displayed on their site...wonder if it changed.

Oh well, looks like the Pep might not be getting any more new velour for a while, but at least they are accepting the consequences.

Mammothgambler

spdmrcht · Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Posts: 498

stan_allen · Joined: 19 Dec 2005 Posts: 1129

That's interesting - doesn't Keno offer the worst odds in the casino?

That's spdmrcht, always ahead of the curve...